The Revenue-Focused Marketer

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Transcript

0:11:
Hello and welcome to another episode of the revenue-focused marketer, where we discuss anything and everything related to marketing as well as data.

0:20:
I’m your usual host, Hershey.

0:22:
Today, our topic is going to be exploring everything from AI to, you know, kind of evolving in the role of business to leadership principles that kind of drive innovation.

0:32:
So I am really happy and excited to welcome Sid.

0:36:
Thank you so much for joining us today.

0:39:
Thank you being with you, Hershey.

0:41:
You are the usual host, and I’m the unusual guest.

0:45:
Excited to have you here today.

0:47:
So I guess for our listeners, maybe we can start off with, you know, learning about your journey.

0:52:
What kind of sparked your interest and how did you, you know, get into the career path that you are in today?

0:57:
How did I get into it is a much deeper question.

1:01:
It’s not serendipity, it’s a series of choices that at the time I probably didn’t know why I’m.

1:07:
But I had good reasons, which I don’t recall.

1:10:
I just briefly, I’ve built a number of companies.

1:13:
I’ve been, , the head of innovation for 20 to $30 billion companies.

1:20:
I have a couple of books, bestselling books, and I also teach at the USC, University of Southern California, both in engineering and business school.

1:31:
Most of the companies that I have started and sold.

1:34:
Has something to do with technology and particularly data.

1:38:
So I’m very focused on strategic use of data on a lot of stuff.

1:43:
I also am known for as the entrepreneurial philosopher because I have a tendency of mixing up philosophy and business because I believe the core of our growth and prosperity begins in our mind and how we look at the world.

1:56:
Recent activities are launching an academy, which is a completely unusual.

2:02:
Academy online.

2:03:
It doesn’t have any tests.

2:05:
It doesn’t have any, any starts or certificates.

2:08:
It’s all about combining mindfulness and entrepreneurs.

2:11:
So that’s me.

2:12:
Oh wow, that’s so wonderful.

2:14:
Thank you so much for kind of giving, you know, our listeners a brief about you.

2:19:
I think it’s really impressive all that you’ve achieved, and I would first like to kind of dive in about the sort of philosophical aspect that you share.

2:28:
What kind of led you to, you know, Combine these two worlds.

2:31:
I know philosophy is a class a lot of students take in like, you know, their business school or like even in their undergrad studying business, but what kind of impact did you to combine these two?

2:42:
Is it approach?

2:43:
I was very interested in philosophy, and I actually taught some courses, , long time ago, let’s say 40 years ago.

2:52:
I’m an old, I’m an old man for those who can’t see me, but.

2:57:
I I’ve had always an interest in mixing the eastern philosophy and the Western philosophy and basically discovering what is consistent amongst them, what is common and what is uncommon, and you will find a lot more common than uncommon, and our behaviors who we are and who we can be, has a lot to do with our personal philosophy.

3:19:
That is, we each make our own dish, your chicken tikka masela or Kapao chicken or whatever, wherever you.

3:28:
From is very different than mine.

3:30:
That’s why you love your mom because she makes it a different way than than somebody else.

3:34:
We each see the world through our own lens, and we each shape our own philosophy and approach in a similar manner with, with our own constraints.

3:44:
You are very different than I am.

3:45:
Your friends were different.

3:47:
Your parents were different.

3:48:
Your even the toys you played with are different.

3:51:
There are 8 billion people on our planet.

3:54:
They’re all different.

3:55:
So it is funny that we have.

3:57:
, a kind of an Ikea look to life that is, , take a, take B, threw it together and boom, you’re successful.

4:08:
So core of my perspective is that you’re unique and your growth path is unique whether you are an individual or you call yourself an entrepreneur.

4:18:
Now we’re all entrepreneurs.

4:20:
This is why I said I’m the unusual guy that you may have on the call.

4:24:
, here’s why an entrepreneur by original definition has nothing to do with money.

4:30:
This is something that people, it has, it has to do something with.

4:36:
Changing what you have, your situation, whatever it is, with something better.

4:40:
That’s what entrepreneurship is.

4:42:
You have an idea, you have a product, you even have your time and you want to.

4:48:
Change that with something of a higher value, but nothing is guaranteed.

4:52:
There is risk.

4:53:
So we’re all in a sense entrepreneurs changing what we have with something different.

4:57:
Now if you take that perspective, whenever you look at, whenever you look at everything, you’ll see that the other party also has some reasons, needs to be satisfied.

5:08:
So you are doing what you’re doing because maybe the salary was right, maybe the location.

5:13:
was right.

5:14:
Maybe the timing was right.

5:15:
Maybe you’re passionate.

5:16:
Maybe, maybe about, about the job.

5:18:
Maybe it gives you options and, and you can work from home.

5:22:
Maybe, maybe they have good insurance, you know, you, you engage with the company based on your own reasons because you want to exchange your life for something better.

5:31:
So if you think that, you’ll see that in business.

5:35:
And that’s why I was saying one of the books was a bestseller both in philosop.

5:38:
in business.

5:39:
In business, if you look at the world in a similar way, you will find that your customers want to be, they are entrepreneurs too.

5:46:
They want to exchange what they have with something better.

5:49:
If you give them what they want, if you give them the bundle of satisfaction, then you’re not selling, they’re buying.

5:56:
So this notion that I have a sales force of X number of people and I do this and that, we’re just communicating value as a company.

6:03:
Mhm.

6:05:
And if it resonates with with people, they will buy because they want to, because they want to improve their life with something better.

6:13:
If they’re a business person, they may want more revenue and, and, and pay for digital whatever or if they’re .

6:20:
, thirsty, they’ll get a glass of, you know, a bottle of water, and if they have cancer, they will pay and sell their home to get that pill that cures it.

6:30:
So the key is, if you look at the lens of entrepreneurship and you look at the lens.

6:35:
The business, it’s very similar.

6:37:
We each are also an entrepreneur.

6:39:
You’re you’re not only an entrepreneur, you’re an enterprise.

6:43:
You make money.

6:44:
You spend money.

6:45:
You have friends that you provide service to.

6:48:
You have customers in this case it’s your employer.

6:51:
And so all of us are in this exchange business all the time, a very interesting perspective, yeah, and the key is not to be successful.

7:02:
Success is defined by others, Hershey, you know, you’re an attorney, so you’re successful.

7:07:
Your parents may say, Oh, Hershey is working as a lead product manager.

7:11:
She’s successful.

7:12:
She’s a doctor.

7:13:
She’s successful.

7:14:
She graduated.

7:15:
They are very well defined measurable things that the society defines, but only you know if you’re satisfied or not.

7:22:
Satisfaction is based on your internal reason, not based on what the society defines.

7:27:
Your customers decide based on satisfaction and not success.

7:32:
Makes sense.

7:33:
As someone who is, you know, advised Fortune 500 executives and startups and, you know, kind of been in this space, what leadership traits do you think are essential for kind of navigating today’s fast changing world?

7:46:
We have AI is really changing the space right now.

7:49:
It’s become the newest buzzword.

7:51:
It’s become what everybody wants to talk about, but do you think there are still some traits that kind of, you know, stick with and, you know, are important to kind of So again, let’s, let’s go back.

8:03:
Just like every one of us are an entrepreneur, everyone, every one of us is also inherently a leader.

8:10:
Now we lead our life, so we may not be a good one, but we do lead.

8:15:
Now, the key is, let’s say there are, I can either on top of my.

8:20:
It mentioned 8, 10 different leadership models, transactional models, coaching models, this model, that one, but you know what you would do as an individual?

8:29:
You take all those models and you filter it through your own glasses of how you see the world and you put things together in a certain way, and that’s your leadership pursuit.

8:39:
Each one of us do that.

8:40:
So there’s again going back to that getting a dish made, you make it differently than your mom.

8:46:
Your mom makes it differently than your aunt, , you know, so leadership, there’s a lot of, lot of different recipes, but what works is what works through your lens.

8:56:
Why, why is that?

8:57:
Because your employees are different than somebody else.

9:00:
Do you think that the same leadership model or same structure would work if you run Microsoft versus you run the .

9:07:
, you know, a coaching business or you run a bakery or you run a digital marketing.

9:13:
No, they’re different, they’re different ways and it has to do with the person and how it filters through and and consumes it.

9:20:
One is, , is trust, a good leader.

9:25:
Has to a trust himself.

9:27:
It’s a three way trust B trust others.

9:31:
And see be trusted by others, because if you want to change in any way, if you want anything that happens, people do follow you they they need to, there needs to be trust.

9:42:
A good leader has to have courage and courage is not what we say fearless and that’s nonsense.

9:48:
If you’re fearless, you’re stupid.

9:51:
There are dangers all around us in terms of competition, in terms of markets, and so you have to, you have to be prepared to react to fear, not be fearless.

10:01:
Mhm.

10:02:
So courage is not just to move forward, it’s also courage to push back, courage to be wrong, courage to admit.

10:10:
It’s more than what it is made out to be a great fighter.

10:13:
It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s to be able to understand when things are going on.

10:19:
You have to be situationally aware, meaning different situations require different actions, meaning not all situations are created equally at the same time.

10:30:
Mhm.

10:31:
Being aware of how your employees feel, how the market feels, where your product is, where your situations are should define.

10:40:
How you react or act or lead, but to do that you have to be aware.

10:46:
That is, you can’t be sitting in your yacht somewhere and think that you know what you’re doing because you’re following some conventional leadership model.

10:54:
It doesn’t work.

10:56:
By the way, the fact that you’re in a position of leadership doesn’t make you a leader because your father was wealthy or you got.

11:04:
You you got lucky to be in a position.

11:06:
That doesn’t mean you’re a leader.

11:07:
It just means that that you’re taking that position.

11:10:
So, , so there’s a bunch of things that are principles, if you would.

11:14:
It doesn’t matter how you put the puzzles together.

11:19:
Leaders should be risk navigator, not risk taker.

11:22:
They’re, they’re two different things.

11:24:
Risk takers are in Las Vegas and gambling houses.

11:28:
Entrepreneurs are not good entrepreneurs are not risk takers.

11:31:
They’re risk navigators.

11:33:
That means you, you look at the situations and appropriately look at the probability of one direction versus another direction, and you’re able to change at the right time.

11:43:
So you’re aware of the timing of the market and the situation.

11:48:
Now let’s get to AI.

11:49:
I have lots of articles and lots of talks about the impacts of AI overall on humanity.

11:56:
You know, people are scared of what’s going to happen to my job.

11:59:
Well, about 15% of the jobs in the world out of the 5 million jobs that are available are going to be gone.

12:05:
That’s a fact.

12:06:
Why?

12:07:
Because there is 15 or $16 trillion of economic productivity that is going to be generated.

12:15:
In the next 3 to 4 years, every year, I want you to get the context of this $15 trillion with a T that is equivalent, slightly lower than 1.4.

12:28:
billion people work in China in a year.

12:31:
OK, it’s almost 3 times bigger than 1.5 people work in India.

12:39:
It’s a lot of money, a lot of productive, so you can’t, you can’t stop this wave of economic impact.

12:45:
It’s simple.

12:47:
So the fact is, though, it is going to change our life, and we’re seeing small, we’re seeing a lot of small little things that hey, the phone does this or the systems do this, or the pictures are made or people, you know, those are gamifications of something that’s a lot bigger.

13:05:
We cannot do something in the drug discovery that could have been taken in terms of data analysis that could have taken 48 years with quantum computing, it takes about 200 seconds.

13:17:
Now that is going to change how drug.

13:20:
So the question is what do we do when we live longer?

13:24:
The driving machines haven’t been able to automotive autonomous haven’t been there, but they will get there.

13:31:
We’re getting close.

13:32:
So what are we going to do?

13:33:
All of us are going to sit in the back of it.

13:35:
, you know, electric car, autonomous car, and, and play with our Facebook and Instagram.

13:41:
What is our role?

13:43:
What what are we gonna be?

13:44:
So the key is there is a new what I call it, there was in the 1st 40, in the last 40,000 years of human, human history, there was something called they call it the explosion.

13:56:
It started when people discovered math and clothing and stuff.

14:00:
I think we’re at the cost of explosion era number 2 or 2.0 because we have to realize that our value is in our innovation is in our creativity.

14:11:
Our value is not in doing mechanical things where.

14:15:
Yes, we enjoy driving, but that’s not what we’re built to do.

14:19:
Yes, we have to go and work in order to make a living, but that was not what we were built to do.

14:25:
So this transition, though, that is, is more of a mental transition that for us to accept that there is a better way that we can be.

14:34:
Now imagine people would push back against when they discovered the knife, OK, and they’ll say, oh this knife, you know what it’s going to do is.

14:42:
it’s going to stop our evolution because our teeth is not going to grow as much as because we had big teeth because we were diving into meat and this and that.

14:51:
Now, OK, so over time our physical appearance has changed because we don’t have to do the same thing or the discovery of fire or all those things that has changed it.

15:00:
Now we have to accept that there is something new and always there is danger to it just like a knife, it could kill people.

15:08:
Or could cut tomatoes.

15:11:
So is there a danger?

15:12:
You bet there is.

15:13:
Is there going to be adjustments?

15:14:
Yes, there should be, there will be, , but there is a different era of evolution, which is a mental evolution.

15:23:
As opposed to a physical evolution, we’re just, and I’m when I’m saying 40,000 years in the past, so give, give and take, , you know, 50 years on this side or 100.

15:33:
I’m not sure that we have begun or, or we’re just at the cost and there’s going to be bumps in the road.

15:39:
Definitely.

15:40:
I think like one question I have as a follow up to this would be like, you know, what.

15:45:
What are some common mistakes that you kind of see companies making right now when they try to integrate AI into their business and their business strategy?

15:53:
It’s still something that, you know, a lot of companies are new to.

15:57:
So what are things that they like, you know, for listeners here, they can kind of avoid doing.

16:02:
You know, I’ve, I’ve, , I’ve advised the, the CEOs of Fortune 100 companies many times and I’ve, as I said, built companies.

16:14:
Of my own, and one of the things that happens and it’s happening every time there’s something new you’re at a party and somebody says, Well, are you using AI?

16:22:
Well, we have these 7 things and initiatives, and then they go home and they say, OK, we got, we got to have some AI stuff.

16:28:
Why?

16:29:
Because, because the market says what do you do?

16:31:
And then our stock prices, so there’s a lot of, lot of fluff, lots of fluff, and they’re creating lots of risk, and they’re unaware of it.

16:40:
They’re unaware of the risk that’s.

16:43:
being made, but you know this is in the spirit of moving fast and breaking things, I suppose.

16:48:
and I’m talking about big companies.

16:51:
They, they spend lots of waste, lots of money.

16:55:
They spend now we’ve we’ve had AI actually it’s for you it may sound new.

17:01:
AI was started 7080 years ago.

17:04:
It’s not now, you know, the first computer approach to decision making and cognitive was.

17:11:
About feeding all this information to a computer and seeing if it can act as a doctor, so you give them the symptoms and it worked.

17:19:
Everything that we’ve done prediction wise in terms of even the small regression models are machine learning and it’s AI.

17:26:
We looked at the past, we predicted the future, but this frenzy about the chat GPT type of stuff or the LLM type of stuff or things, well, obviously we’re learning more because we can consume more.

17:39:
It has more to do.

17:40:
With our computing power in terms of, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the natural language processing models have been around for 30 years, 20 years, but we couldn’t do it on the speed and the scale that it was done.

17:56:
No, obviously there’s some new stuff, but AI.

17:59:
Has been here for a long time.

18:01:
It’s just been growing and evolving and getting more traction, and most importantly with the CAT GPT getting to be known by the average joe.

18:12:
In a typical bank there are somewhere around 2000.

18:18:
, machine learning models working before, so lots of predictions, lots of stuff happening, but people were unaware of it, but it would happen now this LLM stuff is, is, is really the, the tip of the spear, if you would, and I think that would, , find its way and it would, it would, it would, it would get into a soft landing in the next year or so.

18:43:
, by finding, no, I’m not saying it go away.

18:45:
I’m just saying it’ll find its way, meaning today on the, on the venture investment front, there are a lot of companies getting huge funding.

18:56:
For things that I think it’s mostly gaming, it’s not gonna go anywhere because there’s no real value, but they may even go public.

19:05:
They may even sell because of the frenzy, but there are some good stuff that’s happening too in the drug discovery area, as I would say.

19:13:
For example, your, your audience are mostly digital folks that use marketing right now you’re using some.

19:18:
AI you’re using some stuff in terms of, , where do we, where do, where do we market what platform, what’s the pricing, what’s the frequency, what time do we do?

19:30:
What message do we test?

19:32:
OK, so if, if AI is doing all of that, can you fast forward and tell me what the hell you’re doing 6 months from now?

19:38:
And if AI is doing what it’s doing, can you tell?

19:41:
what the hell your customers that are using you that are managing the process I do it a year from now because they’re not needed.

19:48:
I have some machine.

19:50:
I’ll say go push this product to the best market that you can find at the best pricing that you could find at the most effective conversion rate in the best channels possible.

20:01:
Thank you very much.

20:02:
I’ll see you tomorrow.

20:05:
We don’t need anybody.

20:06:
It’s a bunch of mechanical things.

20:07:
So I think it would be foolish for us to think that there would be no role for us.

20:12:
There will be a role, but that role is not the same as the role is today.

20:16:
Definitely to shape that role, that is the challenge of every CMO.

20:21:
That’s the challenge of every person involved in marketing.

20:24:
That’s the challenge of you, your company, to see, OK, how do we shape the future knowing that I have new tools, I have new capabilities.

20:32:
So what happened?

20:33:
People turned dumb when we discovered calculators, but I remember, you probably, it’s not your age, but when I was going to school, we were prohibited of using calculators.

20:44:
Mhm, definitely.

20:44:
But now, we’re in a different era completely.

20:48:
So this is just another piece of giving us another imagine this, imagine this, you now have extended, expanded your brain to have the intelligence.

20:59:
Of every book that has ever been written, you couldn’t do that.

21:04:
Nobody could do that.

21:05:
OK, so I read 100 books, 200 books, 1000 books.

21:08:
OK.

21:09:
Do I remember everything?

21:11:
Imagine you are empowered by every formulation of every mathematical calculation possible.

21:17:
Your mind has been boosted to have a tremendous amount of computing power.

21:23:
Can you create more with that intelligence?

21:26:
Should you create?

21:26:
More, it’s obvious that if I have a faster car, I want to drive faster.

21:32:
Should we, should we not drive a car because we used to drive carriages and horses?

21:38:
No, we take a plane because it’s faster.

21:40:
We go to places.

21:41:
We discover this is, this is just an extension to our capabilities.

21:46:
Now, if we don’t enhance the way we look at things, if we don’t change the way we look at things, we’re going to see a lot of crashes because we don’t know how to drive.

21:54:
The car.

21:55:
Wow.

21:56:
This has been such a fantastic discussion, and I think your insights on AI philosophy, analytics, and even like you don’t just leadership have been invaluable.

22:07:
For our listeners here today, if they want to kind of learn more about you, where can they, you know, find you, follow you and any last, you know, closing thoughts from your.

22:17:
And suggest I don’t know when your your episode would be released, but I am launching the Anabasis Academy.

22:25:
Anabasis Ana means moving, moving up.

22:28:
Basis means moving the base up, which is an unconventional academy, it combines mindfulness and entrepreneurship, the committed level, which is the second level of membership for 1000 people.

22:39:
So it’s.

22:42:
If they, if they like to explore, be intrigued, come on board, and somebody will sponsor you.

22:48:
If you feel that your next best version can be built and if we can help.

22:52:
So the idea is this is not a place where I give you 123, and you’re going to be a trillionaire.

22:58:
That’s nonsense.

22:59:
This is not a place where I motivate you in a shallow way that in 2 days it’s gone.

23:04:
I just want to provoke you.

23:06:
You are an entrepreneur.

23:07:
You have every capability.

23:09:
I just, I.

23:09:
I just need to explore ideas for you and you’ll put the puzzle together.

23:13:
Perfect.

23:14:
Thank you so much again for being here today and sharing your insights.

23:18:
I enjoy talking to you.

23:20:
Wonder like me as well and for our listeners that tuned in today, you know, please definitely share with us your thoughts on this episode.

23:29:
Stay curious, stay innovating, and we’ll see you next time on the revenue.

23:33:
curious.

23:34:
Definitely, thank you so much.

23:36:
Take care.

23:37:
Bye bye.

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