The Revenue-Focused Marketer

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Transcript

0:10:
Hello and welcome to another episode of the revenue focused marketer where we discuss anything and everything related to marketing as well as data.

0:19:
I’m your usual host, Hershey here to unpack what it really takes to turn marketing into a growth engine.

0:26:
, today, I’m beyond excited to be joined by someone whose name is practically synonymous with revenue-driven marketing.

0:34:
So, , we have here A Lee Judge.

0:37:
Thank you so much, Lee, for joining us today.

0:40:
Thank you for having me, Hershey.

0:41:
Glad to be here.

0:42:
Awesome.

0:43:
, just a little bit more about him.

0:45:
Lee is not just a marketer, he’s a practitioner, creator, and a strategist who has co-founded Content Monster, , where he helps brands blend storytelling and data-driven strategy.

0:59:
So, , in this episode, We’re really hoping to dive deeper into what it means to actually generate leads that can work, why marketing and sales still kind of argue over MQLs and how content even with AI can kind of help marketers stop just publishing but really start performing.

1:19:
So let’s jump right in.

1:21:
All right.

1:23:
Awesome.

1:24:
, I guess, , I would really love to kind of understand a little bit about your journey.

1:30:
So, you know, how you really got started and what led to, you know, your work today.

1:35:
Yeah, well, I’ve been in marketing since about 2010 officially.

1:40:
, and when I say officially, I mean in terms of having a title.

1:43:
I’ve been marketing all my life.

1:44:
I come from an entrepreneurial family.

1:46:
I’ve marketed businesses since 10th grade.

1:48:
I’ve always had a business since 10th grade, since I was about 15.

1:51:
So, I’ve always been marketing, always been in business, , but it wasn’t until about 2010 where I got a first official marketing title, I would guess you would say.

2:01:
, and so in that journey, , I happened to be placed between sales and marketing.

2:08:
One of my first major marketing jobs, day one, I was given Salesforce and by the CEO and they said, Hey, , I know this is a marketing job, but we know that you understand relational databases.

2:21:
Now at that time, I didn’t know what a CRM was properly.

2:25:
I just knew I had built multiple relational databases for managing customer data.

2:31:
So the CEO knew that.

2:32:
I just didn’t know what I knew.

2:34:
And so the position I was put in was to work directly between sales and marketing to help marketing show their value and to get sales to enter the data that would allow the organization to understand where they’re going, forecasting, how to improve marketing.

2:51:
There was just a very separate, it’s a popular term, siloed situation there.

2:56:
And so, actually, that put me in a place where over the next 15 or so years, that was my specialty, was communicating between sales and marketing to drive revenue.

3:08:
And even though there wasn’t a title so popular then as revenue operations, that’s what I was.

3:14:
I was the sales operations person, the marketing operations person, which in essence, is this, the revenue operations person.

3:22:
, and then recently, last February, I released a book.

3:26:
The book is titled C Cash.

3:27:
It’s an acronym for communication, alignment, Systems, and Honesty, because those are the four elements that I found when sales and marketing did not work together well to drive a company’s revenue, it was one of those 4 things that caused the failure of the of of the company to grow revenue the way they wanted to.

3:50:
I love that acronym and I’m glad, like, you know, you have had so much experience in something that is highly important, even today, right?

3:59:
You’ve been working in something like.

4:02:
Today I can sit here and tell you that alignment between marketing and sales is still one of the biggest problems a lot of companies face here.

4:12:
So if, you know, for someone who is still trying to figure how to get better with this, what advice would you have?

4:19:
Would it be like, you know, maybe you can dive deeper into the system that you’ve established here, but how does one really start solidifying and finding a solution to this problem?

4:31:
You know, it’s interesting as I’ve traveled the country and given talks on the cash framework, , about the second time I spoke on it.

4:39:
This was probably, this was before the book was even released.

4:42:
Someone in the audience asked me, was there a particular order in which they should initiate the framework of communication alignment systems and honesty.

4:52:
And at that moment, I realized there actually is an order because each one builds on the other.

4:59:
So, in order to get to, say, for example, the systems part, you have to have correct communication between your sales team and your marketing team.

5:07:
And it’s, it’s two ways.

5:08:
I always do a call out in the audience between sales and marketing to have them say out loud, it’s between sales and marketing, between marketing and sales, because In order for marketing to pursue the correct people and to create relationships, they have to understand the language that the customer speaks, and the customer’s pains, and the customer’s objections, and those come from sales, the people who are on the front line and who are communicating with the customer.

5:37:
And so when that frontline learns what the customer wants and what the customer doesn’t want, that information has to go back to marketing.

5:46:
And so whenever I see this, this, this, , this juncture of sales saying, well, we asked for more MQLs or for more leads, they, they brought us more leads, but then they weren’t the right leads.

5:58:
Well, that’s the first sign of a communication breakdown.

6:02:
Because marketing is working to bring in these leads, but what are they working on?

6:06:
What information do they have from sales as to who, who sales wants brought in?

6:13:
, often we see when we talk when we get into the alignment stage, we realize that sales is working for a different product or different solution than marketing is marketing at the time.

6:23:
And this is a sign of the communication may may have broken down, which leads to alignment breakdown.

6:29:
, and then from there it goes into the systems, and the systems is, is sales putting data in their CRM that that then informs the marketing automation platform and the marketing team of what’s actually happening, because we talk about revenue, we’re not talking about just this, this activity of getting in leads and pursuing the leads.

6:52:
Our goal is revenue, like, did we close deal?

6:55:
Did we make money?

6:57:
And that has to be a part of us communicating what we need, aligning on what we’re working towards, and then having the systems in place to collect the data and make data-driven decisions.

7:08:
It’s a perfect way to go about it, I love that flow, and you know something definitely that a lot of us can keep in mind when we face such a problem.

7:17:
, I think I’ve heard you say before, like, you know, marketing should be tied to revenue, not just reach.

7:25:
For someone that’s still reporting on impressions, clicks, and like sort of the vanity metrics, how do you walk them through like, you know, this shift in mindset?

7:34:
Because a lot of people like, you know, outside of marketing still consider it a cost driver or call center.

7:41:
Yes, but not really something as an investment.

7:45:
But I think we’re trying to.

7:47:
Really changed the narrative here, right, lately.

7:50:
Right.

7:50:
You know, it’s too often that marketing is seen as the make it pretty department.

7:54:
Like here, take this PowerPoint, make it pretty, you know, or the social media department, you know, post this on our web page or on our social media and walk away.

8:04:
But if marketing is held to, which they are, they’re held to responsibility to help drive revenue, but yet we allow some marketing teams to report on things that aren’t tied to revenue.

8:17:
So marketing needs to take it upon themselves to say, you know what, even though maybe our CMO and below are asking us for web views and social follows and and and the like, and, you know, trade show booths and PowerPoints, we may be asked for those things, but in order for us to show our value, It’s on marketers to attend sales meetings.

8:39:
Find out what hits the bottom line, find out what the company really cares about.

8:45:
You won’t go into a sales meeting and and hear things about follows and web page hits.

8:50:
You just won’t hear it.

8:51:
It’s not a part of what’s important to the company.

8:54:
Now, may be important to the CMO down, but it isn’t important to the company.

8:58:
So, I advise all marketers to get into those meetings.

9:02:
First, find out what is important to the company, like, what deals do we need to close, what products do we need to move, , what’s working and what’s not, and then back from those those conversations back into marketing data and see the first touch point where you can find out how can marketing affect that thing.

9:23:
So, for example, If you, you may find out in the sales meeting that you have these 3 products, and only one of them is really driving revenue.

9:31:
The other ones are nice to haves or add-ons, but one’s driving revenue.

9:36:
Once you know that, OK, how can marketing affect that product?

9:40:
How can marketing show that this event, this white paper, this social media affected that product?

9:47:
And then once you do that, then you can start talking about how marketing affects pipeline.

9:52:
That solidifies marketing as a part of the revenue team.

9:56:
How does marketing affect pipeline?

9:59:
Now how does marketing affect views and likes, how does it affect pipeline?

10:02:
And so, once marketers begin talking in that language to understand what sales and revenue language is, then we solidify ourselves as a part of the revenue team and not just the make it Pretty team.

10:15:
Yeah, no, that’s such a valuable point.

10:18:
I think a lot of, you know, marketers still miss this point to bring it across to the teams.

10:23:
And I think it’s just like, you know, like you said, step by step, moving in this direction can make a lot of impact, so I love that answer.

10:32:
, let’s dive.

10:33:
A little bit deeper into like, you know, lead generation that really counts.

10:38:
So there’s been a lot of like, you know, , discussion about g gated versus ungated content, , and how is your approach to this changed over the years?

10:49:
What do you think is really working now?

10:52:
Well, you mentioned what changed over the years.

10:54:
And so, yeah, there was a time when we gated everything because, you know, we actually made that content.

11:02:
For the purpose of gaining it.

11:04:
So, yes, there’s been a huge progression from making content for the purpose of gating it to get the lead, to now we should make content for the purpose of educating and being the trusted advisor for our potential customer.

11:18:
Now, we have to generate leads, but depending on your organization, you have to figure out when it’s time to gate.

11:26:
Like, if you’re getting so much information, That your competitor is educating your customer before you are, then it’s time to peel back some of those gates.

11:36:
, I recently consulted with a company that I realized on their website, every button led to a gate.

11:42:
And I said, there’s no way for your customer to be educated.

11:45:
If someone wants to learn about what’s available in your market, they’re gonna look at you and your competitors.

11:53:
And if your competitors have a learn more button that actually allows the customer to learn more, they can click the button and then read and learn more, they become the trusted advisor first.

12:04:
If you learn more button goes to a gate, they’re gonna just bounce and go somewhere else.

12:09:
Their goal, their intent at that moment is to learn more, and if you don’t allow them to do that, then you’re gating yourself rather than your customer.

12:18:
So, now we have to give away more information because and even my own company’s philosophy is that if a customer’s interested in doing business with anyone in our space, They’re gonna go with the ones who help them understand their problem, their solution, what the next move is.

12:36:
And so we don’t want to block any of that.

12:38:
Now, you know, at some point they have to contact us, and that’s when the gate happens.

12:43:
It’s not even a gate, it’s a doorway.

12:46:
It’s a, you’ve now been educated, now come to us and let us know who you are, and then we’ll work with you.

12:54:
Now, of course, one would say we have to build email lists, we have to find more leads, we have to find more people who don’t know about us, and that’s valuable, but here’s the thing.

13:06:
Oftentimes we put measurement so far ahead of business that we end up with a perfectly tuned machine to measure nothing.

13:18:
Let me explain that.

13:21:
It means that if you have an audience who’s interested in you, then they’ll come to you.

13:28:
If you gate everything, they can’t come to you and you can measure every time someone fills out a form for that white paper.

13:36:
But you don’t, we don’t have the ability now.

13:39:
It’s difficult now.

13:39:
I won’t say don’t have the ability.

13:41:
It’s difficult now to measure every interaction, every time they read a piece of content, every hit to our website, we have to let go a little bit and let our customer do some research, because the fact is they’re going to research, whether we allow them to on our website or on our competitors’ website.

14:01:
So, scale back the the gates.

14:05:
, scale up the understanding that a customer has to research.

14:09:
Now, when do you gate?

14:11:
That’s going to be the next question, obviously.

14:13:
So it’s when you have something that’s so valuable.

14:17:
That they’re happy to give up their email address for it.

14:21:
And so that’s where we have to eliminate the past of these thinly veiled white papers that are just sales documents, right?

14:30:
They have to be things that are so valuable.

14:32:
You have to put in the time and the work and the effort to create content that the customer could not have found on their own.

14:41:
So that’s your unique research perhaps.

14:45:
That’s maybe you’ve done the work to compile all the research that your customer may have done into one place that makes it valuable to them to save time.

14:55:
So if you can say to me, OK, Lee, there’s lots of people out there who are competing with us.

15:01:
I will give you one document that will allow you to save you hours of research that will tell you honestly, what the best solution is and how to obtain that best solution, and it’s not a thinly veiled sales pitch for our product.

15:17:
That’s worth it.

15:18:
So, the answer is, it has to be very high value for you to ask someone for the email address nowadays.

15:26:
Definitely.

15:27:
And talking about, I guess, valuable content, a big piece of content is now being generated using AI, right?

15:36:
And that’s become a trend that we’re noticing a lot of people kind of utilizing some, it’s very easy to tell, oh, this just sounds like ChaGPT or something generated by AI.

15:48:
I really don’t want to even read it.

15:50:
But what, what are your thoughts on, you know, utilization of AI for writing content, especially like, you know, maybe something that’s as deep as a gated piece of content utilizing AI.

16:03:
AI should be used to enhance your content, speed up your content creation, but it should not be the original source of your content.

16:14:
Tying that back to what we said a moment ago about gated, if you’re using AI to create the content, like from the start, and then you gate it, you’re gating information that is obviously widely available, otherwise, AI could not have created it.

16:30:
So right now, someone’s probably creating content, using AI and then gating it, not realizing that they’ve gated something that was widely available in the first place, otherwise, AI couldn’t have made it.

16:42:
Now, where I think we should use AI.

16:45:
Now, my company is a content creation company, my agency content monster, and we use lots of AI, but we use AI.

16:53:
As a tool to speed up the process, to simplify the process, to enhance the content.

17:00:
It’s OK if you have, you know, if you’re writing something and you have 3 reasons to do ABC and you wanna know, did I thoroughly cover that?

17:09:
And AI says, wait, there’s a 4th reason, right?

17:12:
So AI is, is complimented your thoughts, but you that started with your unique perspective.

17:19:
That’s why I love video and podcasts so much, because we’re having a conversation, we will say things that are new, original, ideal, right?

17:28:
They’re authentic and they’re things that we haven’t written before.

17:32:
, and what that does is it gives us language that if you take this conversation we’re having now, for example, You use AI to transcribe it, even if you use AI to create an article from it, that article is based on human conversation, right?

17:48:
These are things right, it’s unique.

17:50:
Things that you and I are saying right now, , you’ll get your opinion, my opinion, these are new things that are being generated by humans, and then we use AI to aggregate that into an article.

18:02:
Now that’s fine.

18:03:
So, AI is a great second step to human creation.

18:08:
And even maybe a final step to to quality check human creation.

18:14:
But there has to be a human in the loop, otherwise you’re not making anything new, and you definitely can’t gate it.

18:20:
So, , when it comes to SEO, when it comes to being found in in generative AI search, You have to have something new.

18:30:
If it’s opinion, if it’s research, if it’s a thought, if it isn’t new, then you’re not competing with against your competitors, you’re just making more slop out there for AI to rehash over and over.

18:43:
So, if you want to stand out, you want to reach new people with new ideas, you’re gonna have to start with a human.

18:50:
Definitely.

18:51:
And I, I love that you kind of bridge this next question for me here, which is, , I do want to dive deeper into SEO nowadays because the way we search is already starting to change and you know, a lot of people used to Google used to be the one stop shop for any questions you might have.

19:10:
And late.

19:10:
It’s been like, let me ask GBT or like, let me ask one of my other AI tools that I’m utilizing, right?

19:17:
And even if you are using AI now or Google Now, you kind of limit yourself to like the first AI generated prompt or response that you get instead of really spending hours scrolling through what pops up.

19:31:
So for companies that are still, you know, investing their time in SEO, , what’s the approach that they should follow?

19:38:
Do you think it’s gonna stay the same?

19:40:
Is EEAT something like, you know, people should still consider within SEO or are we really trying to like, you know, drift away from this concept of SEO and needing to get these rankings down?

19:52:
Well, in terms of SEO and generative search, yes, we are seeing that a slither of search is now moving from Google and being into to AI platforms.

20:06:
But the important thing to know is that it’s just starting now.

20:09:
We’re not fully there yet and SEO is still important, and web search is still important on browsers.

20:15:
But the underlying the baseline of that is, the practices that were good for traditional SEO are still good for generative search results.

20:26:
So the basis of like the, the, the first E is experience.

20:31:
So if you are giving experience into your content, then , or expertise, then you’re still giving something that’s new and original.

20:40:
So new and original was good for traditional SEO and new and original is good for generative search results.

20:47:
So if you’re good at those things of, of creating original content, whether it be research or opinion, The rules haven’t changed, just the platforms.

20:57:
Now, one thing that I have seen change is that what you, the content you create now can be more multimedia.

21:06:
So, you can create podcasts, you can create video.

21:09:
And these, these types of content can give you an advantage when it comes to generative search results because it’s able to do more to dig deeper into transcripts.

21:19:
If you have a YouTube video that text is available there.

21:22:
It was there before because Google owns owns YouTube and Google knows what’s there, but you’re gonna find that More unique content will be surfaced.

21:33:
If you search right now in Chat GBT or Perplexity, you’re going to find companies that you’ve never heard of that have had no chance of showing up in traditional search, but now they’re suddenly showing up in those engines.

21:47:
What does that mean?

21:48:
Well, it means that those engines are, of course, looking at content differently.

21:53:
, the ones who were winning with SEO still tend to rise to the top in those platforms, but also ones that never won SEO are showing up.

22:04:
, so I think what’s happening is we’re seeing that the generative AI search results, , are finding things that SEO, traditional SEO or traditional browser search was missing.

22:16:
And so I think now is a great time for brands to lean in on multimedia content.

22:22:
That could be their advantage over just text content, , to get their visibility to rise in generative search.

22:32:
Definitely, and I think the way we want to learn also is adapting and there’s different types that people prefer to, so it’s good to have like you know multiple channels or platforms or people and types of medias where people can really get your content and kind of really make the most out of it.

22:51:
Ah.

22:52:
Let’s talk here a little bit about like some of the struggles.

22:55:
I think many companies struggle to build a nurture journey that kind of matches the buyer’s reality.

23:02:
So where do you think they go wrong?

23:04:
Like, let’s kind of reel back here and like, you know, going deeper into the customer journey aspect.

23:12:
Well, where companies often go wrong is thinking that we can control the customer journey.

23:18:
, it is the customer’s journey, not ours.

23:21:
And so we just have to have content laid out along what we perceive as the customer journey for them to consume it when they’re ready to.

23:32:
So, there’s nothing wrong with having the visual of the funnel, because yes, we talk to the masses and we narrow narrow it down to the few customers.

23:42:
So the, the theory of the funnel still exists, it’s just how it performs is different.

23:47:
The funnel is no longer linear.

23:49:
They don’t neatly go from awareness to, to, , you know, down to action and to become a customer.

23:57:
That that lineage is different now.

23:59:
Now, they could become into awareness, they may even consider you, they may leave the funnel, go out the side and disappear, come back.

24:06:
Into the top of the funnel again, get down to action, go find a buying committee, disappear, come back in.

24:13:
So the funnel is messy, but it still exists.

24:16:
So in terms of our the journey, we have to make sure that we create content that is available for every stage of the funnel.

24:25:
So we don’t just create top of funnel content and leave it at that.

24:29:
We don’t just produce bottom of the funnel content.

24:33:
We make sure that we create content.

24:36:
Directed for each level of the funnel, and then understand that our customers will bounce around.

24:43:
They may get to a consideration stage and still benefit from top of the funnel content because they may bring in new people in their buyers’ group.

24:53:
So, in the past, we would say, you know what, they’re in a consideration stage, let’s make sure we get the product videos and the white papers, and the research to them.

25:02:
That’s if there’s only one person in that process who’s buying from us.

25:08:
Now, maybe in B2C, that’s possible, but in B2B there’s likely to be a buying committee, and so that person who’s considering, who’s ready to close the deal may need someone else’s input to close the deal, and that someone else may need top of the funnel content, right?

25:26:
So, The goal is to to zoom out some, create content strategically for every part of the stage of the funnel, and know that your customer will consume it when they decide to consume it, right?

25:41:
And that the journey is completely theirs, and that goes back to our question about the gating.

25:46:
If you start gating certain parts of the funnel, you’re gonna cut off people who join that buying committee and who now want to learn about the company, but they’re not trying to get back into your email list or on your email list.

25:58:
So, So think about that too.

26:01:
You want to make sure there’s ungated educational content throughout the funnel, so that anyone who wants to learn about your company, no matter what their role is, or their stage, or their role in the the the buyer’s group, that they have content they can consume and learn about you and help them get to the situation where they want to close a deal with you.

26:22:
I think I love when you said like, you know, it’s the customer journey, not yours, I think it’s very deep like, you know, and a lot of time it’s easy to lose focus of that.

26:31:
, so thank you so much for sharing that.

26:34:
I think, , since we’re coming sort of towards the end of our session here today, I do want to get your thoughts on, you know, what does the Future of marketing really look according to you.

26:45:
, is it like, you know, more predictive, , sales cycles?

26:50:
Are we talking like more gente AI?

26:53:
Where do you think the space is, you know, evolving towards and what can people really do to succeed in something that’s ever so evolving, right?

27:03:
Well, the two things I see happening the most with marketing changing is the creative will be faster.

27:10:
And the emphasis on revenue will be stronger.

27:14:
So let me explain those two.

27:16:
The creative will be expected to create the pace of AI.

27:21:
Like, there’ll be no more waiting weeks or months for a PowerPoint or for design or for the image.

27:27:
I mean, I’ve been marketing long enough to where you may put in an order for an image and take a few days to get it, or, or a PowerPoint where we may need a week or two to get a PowerPoint for an internal presentation.

27:39:
Those days are long gone.

27:40:
You can use apps like, you know, Gamma, Typeset, etc.

27:44:
etc.

27:44:
to create a PowerPoint that’s especially internal decent in a few moments, right?

27:49:
So, creativity will have to speed up.

27:52:
Now, if you’re a creative person in an agency or in a company, this doesn’t mean that you’re gonna replace yourself with AI.

27:58:
It means that your expected time to deliver will will be faster, right?

28:03:
Still be creative, still put in your unique creative abilities.

28:06:
I’m not removing the creative, we’re just saying, hey, creator, your expectations have just sped up.

28:12:
You no longer have days and weeks to deliver.

28:15:
We know we can get it faster.

28:16:
That’s the one thing.

28:18:
The revenue generation part is that marketing teams will be required to understand revenue.

28:26:
They’ll be required to understand how marketing must impact the bottom line.

28:31:
The days of vanity metrics and getting away with that are over, right?

28:36:
, marketers have been comforted with reporting up to the CMO and the CMO has been reporting CMO marketing stuff, but even the CMO now, if they don’t respect the idea of revenue generation and think more like a CRO, then they’ll be replaced by CRO, a chief revenue officer.

28:57:
So, everyone has to think about revenue because the data is now more available across the organization.

29:05:
There are more tools that make it so that the CEO, the CRO can just ask questions to AI and get the results.

29:13:
And so marketers have to be more data-driven to make sure their efforts are documented in the software platforms that we create data from the efforts we create, and that sales also creates the data.

29:26:
And so now we have this revenue team and it’s gonna change for both sales and marketing.

29:32:
We both have to think more about crafting.

29:35:
, data sets on our actions, so that we can utilize AI on top of those data sets to understand how the organization is being efficient at generating revenue.

29:47:
Definitely.

29:48:
And if you could build your dream revenue marketing tech stack today, what would you be sure to definitely include, especially for people that are, you know, still in the process of building their revenue marketing tech stack.

30:02:
Well, in my book Cash, the S in cash stands for systems, and so, What I talk about is that systems is are the people and the technology.

30:13:
And we’re building technology at breakneck breakneck’s pace right now.

30:18:
There’s more and more technology.

30:20:
What we’re missing is the people are lagging behind understanding how to use that technology.

30:26:
So, ideally what I would wish for is an understanding among the people that we can uncover so much information, but we have to put that information into something, right?

30:40:
So, we’re getting to a place where AI can be our user interface.

30:46:
They can see all the data, whether it be sales, marketing, analytics, but the data has to be placed in there too often by humans.

30:55:
So if your sales team thinks this, you know, it’s too administrative to fill in information in Salesforce or their CRM if marketing doesn’t realize that, you know, we won’t be able to get everything automatically from tracking.

31:08:
We have to actually put some data in and think about how this data relates to revenue, the people have to adopt the technology.

31:17:
The technology is going to evolve regardless.

31:20:
So my wish is that people will understand that they have a key role in the system.

31:25:
If they put the data in, then they can benefit from the technology we have now to get the data out.

31:32:
At the growth, we often say garbage in is garbage out.

31:37:
It’s really important to focus on getting those foundations right, making sure, you know, you’re getting clean data in to be really able to get the insights that you really want.

31:47:
So thank you so much.

31:49:
I think this has been such an incredible session.

31:52:
I know.

31:52:
I have learned a lot, and I’m sure our listeners will too.

31:56:
, for people that, you know, from the audience that would love to learn more about your book, your work, where can they kind of contact you or like, you know, get more information about you.

32:05:
Yeah, you can find me in my book at a Lee Judge.com, the letter A and then Lee Judge.com.

32:13:
, the book is there as well.

32:14:
The book is called CAS.

32:15:
It stands for communication, Alignment Systems and Honesty, and it’s designed for marketers who need to understand sales better, and sales who need to understand marketing better, and the revenue leaders who, who lead the organization.

32:27:
, and then there’s my agency, Content Master.

32:30:
We create content for businesses, , mainly multimedia, so your, your video, your podcast, and we do that with a marketing mindset.

32:39:
We’re not a podcast agency or a video company.

32:41:
We’re a marketing agency that’s designed for revenue, and we want to make sure we help you create content to reach more customers.

32:49:
That’s incredible.

32:50:
What a wonderful world it would be if everybody followed your book and actually got that alignment between marketing and sales done correctly.

32:58:
So thank you so much for joining us here today.

33:01:
Again, it’s been such a great session and it was.

33:04:
a true pleasure to kind of have you here today and you know, hear your insights.

33:09:
So thank you so much.

33:11:
And also for our listeners that, you know, are tuning in, we’d love to hear your feedback on the episode, and we’ll catch you at the next one.

33:18:
So thank you so much.

33:19:
Thank you.

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